Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Posts: 7870 Location: Portland, Or
Post subject: Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:14 pm
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Very interesting article and I will add a few things to that.. It is important to note that most baby boomers are not occupying entry level jobs - the jobs that will be vacated will be the upper level system administrator type jobs that will be difficult to fill if current generations aren't advancing their knowledge to the degree necessary. Those with the necessary skills can probably look forward to career advancement opportunities.
The entry-level job market will continue to be a mess - too many people applying to too few jobs. And it will probably stay like this until U.S. companies stop outsourcing their entry level work, or enough newbies become discouraged and change their minds about pursuing a career in I.T.
My 2 cents... _________________ Did you know?
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jsprague wrote:
Very interesting article and I will add a few things to that.. It is important to note that most baby boomers are not occupying entry level jobs - the jobs that will be vacated will be the upper level system administrator type jobs that will be difficult to fill if current generations aren't advancing their knowledge to the degree necessary. Those with the necessary skills can probably look forward to career advancement opportunities.
The entry-level job market will continue to be a mess - too many people applying to too few jobs. And it will probably stay like this until U.S. companies stop outsourcing their entry level work, or enough newbies become discouraged and change their minds about pursuing a career in I.T.
My 2 cents...
those are some good points you make. those same companies that are outsourcing entry level IT jobs will be the same ones whining that there are not enough qualified US workers to fill these jobs and then they will be lobbying congress even more to allow for more H1B visas
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Posts: 7870 Location: Portland, Or
Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:21 am
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dsa1971 wrote:
jsprague wrote:
Very interesting article and I will add a few things to that.. It is important to note that most baby boomers are not occupying entry level jobs - the jobs that will be vacated will be the upper level system administrator type jobs that will be difficult to fill if current generations aren't advancing their knowledge to the degree necessary. Those with the necessary skills can probably look forward to career advancement opportunities.
The entry-level job market will continue to be a mess - too many people applying to too few jobs. And it will probably stay like this until U.S. companies stop outsourcing their entry level work, or enough newbies become discouraged and change their minds about pursuing a career in I.T.
My 2 cents...
those are some good points you make. those same companies that are outsourcing entry level IT jobs will be the same ones whining that there are not enough qualified US workers to fill these jobs and then they will be lobbying congress even more to allow for more H1B visas
Yep.. I think you are right... _________________ Did you know?
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Joined: 08 Nov 2003 Posts: 759 Location: USA/CT coast, near RI border.
Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:38 pm
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Of course the next question that follows is?
"Why would an outsourced job ever return to the United States?"
I can think of two reasons that may cause that, there may be more...
1. Cheap labor in the United States. When labor here becomes cheaper than the places jobs are being outsourced to.
2. A revolt against corporate power in politics, and a refusal of the majority to continue voting for the monied candidates. As Lou Dobbs said on CNN: "Corporate power in politics is overwhelming."
IMHO if #2 doesn't happen, #1 is enivetable.
Unless there is a third reason of which I can't think of one _________________ MCSE / MCITP-EA
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znakomi wrote:
Of course the next question that follows is?
"Why would an outsourced job ever return to the United States?"
I can think of two reasons that may cause that, there may be more...
1. Cheap labor in the United States. When labor here becomes cheaper than the places jobs are being outsourced to.
2. A revolt against corporate power in politics, and a refusal of the majority to continue voting for the monied candidates. As Lou Dobbs said on CNN: "Corporate power in politics is overwhelming."
IMHO if #2 doesn't happen, #1 is enivetable.
Unless there is a third reason of which I can't think of one
#3 could be the quality of work although I'm not sure if this is a widespread issue with outsourcing work and if it is I have found that management does not care about quality as long as it's cheap. The company I work for has outsourced some small programming projects to India in the past and both times the results have been total shite. Of course, the problem could be my supervisor's inability and unwillingness to write specs.
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Posts: 7870 Location: Portland, Or
Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:28 pm
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I think quality would be the main reason.. It doesn't matter whether a support department is hosted overseas or in another state, the quality will never be as good as when the company staffs and controls that department themselves. Overseas outsourcing obviously presents additional challenges such as language barriers, product knowledge, etc..
I think that in general most customers have not been very happy with outsourced support and I would imagine that the companies that have chosen this option are aware of it. It will certainly affect my decisions when it comes to larger purchases. _________________ Did you know?
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Joined: 08 Nov 2003 Posts: 759 Location: USA/CT coast, near RI border.
Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:16 pm
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Agreed, quality is a leading concern when considering outsourcing.
I suppose the way to look at it is in terms of the net motion of jobs, how much will the quality issue effect the net motion of jobs going out. _________________ MCSE / MCITP-EA
Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 315 Location: South of Boston, MA
Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:30 pm
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Not only quality of work but service as well. Some of these jobs go to places where there are very qualified people but unfortunatly you cant understand half of what they say to you to help. I had this problem recently with HP. The helpdesk was outsourced to India I think. I could tell he knew what he was saying but I had to get him to say it 3 or 4 times to get the info clearly enough to understand, and I am tech savy (somewhat). What about consumers who have no clue as to what they are doing and are calling for this help desk support and all they get is a language lesson. I have heard of many complain of this problem and some of those will never bother with that companies products as long as that support method is in place. Word travels fast especially a bad word.
Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 3556 Location: Hillsboro, OR
Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:00 am
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The other factor to consider is deregulation. As more and more things are deregulated by the governement in order to have more of a "free market" socitey, bigger companies are free to gobble up the competion with less fuss and muss.
So, when you look at Tier I servers, you really only have three choices nowdays: IBM, HP, and Dell (unless you go with Solaris.) So, if all three now decide to do their help desk overseas, how can you choose between the three? Service doesn't mean all that much when the competition is giving out the same crappy service that you are. This means that companies that use one of the three just tend to stay pat.
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Posts: 7870 Location: Portland, Or
Post subject: Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:00 am
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But in that situation, one would hope that 1 of the companies would attempt to set themselves apart from the others by offering a higher level of service, even if at a higher price. _________________ Did you know?
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